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SKIP33666

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Democrats, Obama and Health Care: Intimidation and Dishonesty, as Businesses Count the Cost

Mon Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM EDT
politics, obama, democrats, verizon, boeing, intimidation, henry-waxman, caterpillar, deere, health-care-cost
By skip33666
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..

This past week, a number of American companies announced--as required by SEC rules--a big charge against earnings because of the extra COSTS the new Obama/Democrat health care bill will impose on American businesses. These companies included Boeing, Verizon, AT&T, Caterpillar, Deere, and probably others I did not see.

Now my younger daughter works--as an attorney--for a large New York law firm. She is in the litigation section, which primarily defends public companies from securities litigation. What is the main source of securities litigation? It is alleged fraudulent misrepresentation/concealment of material facts . This can lead to either SEC action or to the kind of private lawsuits that my daughter helps defend. Thus, if a company's accountants determine that the new health care bill will impose future cots on the company--affecting the company earnings and therefore the stock price--the company is REQUIRED to notify investors of this information so that investors are not purchasing the stock under false pretenses. That is what these public corporations have done.

What has been the reaction of the Obama Administration and Democrats in Congress? It has been the reaction of people who care nothing for either law or truth, but care only for INTIMIDATION and COERCION--mixed, of course, with bribery. That is how this health care bill was passed. Thus, it should be no surprise that these tactics are continuing.

Yes, spokesmen for the Obama Administration have sent out the message that they look unfavorably on companies who are tying to comply with "the law" as best they can. They have suggested these "charges" against earnings are premature, and have implied that these companies are trying to sabotage the health care bill. You will remember that the CEO of Caterpillar was USED by Obama basically announcing--falsely--that the CEO had told Obama that Congress needed to pass the "stimulus" bill in order to allow Caterpillar to rehire workers. The CEO said later that Caterpillar would have to lay off workers before it began hiring again. The point is that Obama has made DEALS with these big corporations, and that they have generally supported him. But let them do anything that the Obama Administration does not like--even if required by law--and the Obama Administration sends out a signal that it looks unfavorably on these companies (implying retaliation, even if that is never explicitly stated--but see below).

But that is not all. It is not just intimidation from the Obama Administration. Henry Waxman--Democrat in the House of Representatives and chairman of an important committee--has sent a letter to many of these companies requiring them to appear before Congress to explain their actions (in a "witch hunt" hearing before his committee).

Now you might be thinking: "Well, if the health care bill is going to cost so much, and COST JOBS, maybe Congress should look into that with the view toward changing or repealing the health care bill." Oh, you poor, naive simpleton (or dishonest person, like Waxman). Democrats in Congress have already made clear that they are accusing these companies of attempting to sabotage the health care bill for their own purposes, and that the purpose of this "hearing' is to intimidate these companies.

Now I think this is disingenuous outrage on the part of Democrats simply trying to INTIMIDATE and EXTORT these companies--as well as any other companies that may be contemplating a similar charge because of anticipated extra costs of the health care bill. However, there is a reason Democrats in Congress might consider it plausible that corporations would distort/misrepresent the numbers for their own purposes. That is because it is what DEMOCRATS in Congress would do, in the same position.

How do we know that? We know that because it is what Democrats did do, to get the health care bill passed in the first place. They manipulated the bill, and lied about the bill, in order to get it though Congress. This included "gaming" the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) by gimmick after gimmick in the bill. Did Democrats also intimidate the CBO, in addition to the outrageous gimmicks in the bill itself (such as imposing taxes the first year, but deferring the costly "benefits" until the fourth year or later; or such as imposing a tax on "Cadillac" insurance plans that will not even go into effect until 2018, which means it probably never will go into effect)? It is reasonable to assume that Congress, and the Obama Administration, put great pressure on the CBO to go along with the assumptions they were GIVEN by the politicians, and some footnotes by the CBO indicate that the CBO was perfectly aware of being "gamed". It is absurd to suggest that the CBO could give accurate numbers on a 3000 page bill that kept CHANGING (partially for the express purpose of "gaming" the CBO "score").

After all, we know that members of Congress were both intimidated and bribed into passing the health care bill. There is not even any doubt about taht. From the Louisiana Purchase" to the Cornhusker Kickback" to the "Gator Aid" to the union bribes to the....and so on, it was a scandal. Even at the very end, enormous pressure was put on pro-life Democrats, and any other wavering Democrat in the House. Nancy Pelosi supposedly used every threat in the book, and some that she may have written into the book herself. There was NOTHING this health care bill was not going to do: from balancing the budget (lol), to reducing health care costs (lol), to "improving" medical care (lol), to reducing health insurance premiums (lol). Al of these assertions were questionable, at best, but it did not stop Democrats from asserting them as if they were facts.

Yes, Democrats--not to mention the mainstream media, although some of those people have gagged at some of the dishonesty in the health care bill assertions--have proven themselves DISHONEST and CORRUPT throughout the saga of this health care bill. Why should they not assume that these corporations are not the same? Isn't it what Democrats would do if they were running these corporations and did not like something government was doing? Of course it is. Democrats have proven that they will do, and say, ANYTHING to support this health care bill. Obama has proven the same thing.

Doubt me.? Remember when Obama said that doctors--those evil doctors he kept giving white coats to stand behind him to support him--would not treat diabetes correctly (with diet, exercise, and preventive care), because they only got paid a "pittance", while if they let the condition progress $30,000, $40,000 or 3v3n $50,000 would bne paid TO THE SURGEON for an amputation. What can you say about a President who will say something as DISHONEST as that (it is on tape)? Of course, surgeons are not paid 3ven $30,000 for an amputation. They are lucky to be paid $3000.00. I heard one doctor say that he got $500 for an amputation of a foot (somewhat low, I thought, but not nearly as low as Obama's ridiculous statement was high). This is all in addition to the fact that ordinarily the "surgeon" does NOT even make the decision as to what kind of preventive care to give, and the people giving the preventive care do not ordinarily participate in the surgeon's fee. (Then there is the ridiculous "3000%" that Obama said small corporations would "save" on subsidized insurance premiums, "enabling them to pay higher salaries"--see my article with the partial title: "The 3000 Percent Solution".) (Will Verizon and the rest LOWER salaries/hire fewer workers because of this health care bill? It is a good bet.)

Nope. Obama and the Democrats have proven what dishonesty and intimidation THEY will engage in for their own purposes. No wonder they are willing to assert that American corporations are just as bad.

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Ex-Pat-1776

When I first heard that 3000% savings I first called my accountant then my travel agent! Should've known it was a teleprompter error. :(

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 11:01 AM EDT
skip33666

Ah, but WAS it a "teleprompter error"? The equally ridiculous $30,000, $40,000 and $50,000 "greedy doctor" amputations were not teleprompter errors. I covered this in my previous article on the subject. The way Obama's speech was set up, it really made no sense to substitute "$3000.00" (the officiall "explanation"). It would not have sounded nearly impressive enough for the overstatement Obama was trying to make, and really takes a lot more explaining than was in Obama's speech (per year? per month? per employee? one time "saving"? regular yearly saving?). My best guess is that Obama DELIBERATELY combined the "30000 dollar number witht he 35% percentage savings provided to businesses with fewer than 25 employees in the bill (to try and make up the extra costs the bill will impose). The percentage approach was the correct approach, because the dollar amount was both merely an estimate and COMPLICATED. But 35% really does not sound that impressive, because most businesses that samlll can't afford to pay the 65% anyway. If they can afford it, they probably would do it without the subsidy. And it was always absurd to suggest that such a small business would use the health insurance subsidy to raise salaries. All in all, it made no more sense to suggest Obama meant $3000.00 than the "3000% made. Personally, I believe he said what SOUNDED BETTER to him, without a care in the world as to whether it was the truth (as he says most things). You do realize, of course, that Obama PASSIONATELY opposed mandatory health insurance in his debates with HIllary Clinton--even stating that Massachusetts had proven that instead of people just having no health insurance because they could not afford it, they would now have no health insurance but face a FINE they could not afford either. You will also remember that Obama, trying to criticize Bush for hurting the National Buard because of Iraq (for wh;ich Obama now wants to take credit), said that 1000 people had been killed in that tornado in Kansas. The number, of course, was 13, and the Kansas governor (now an Obama Cabinet Secretary) said that the National Guard was able to respond fine to that tornado. Official "expanation" then: "Obama was tired and misspoke". My explanation: Obama says what SOUNDS GOOD at any moment, and expects to get away with it because he always has.

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 12:00 PM EDT
knight-403465

Intimidation and dishonesty

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/29/60minutes/main2625305.shtml - short video

I blame special interest corporations. Both parties have lobbyists to take care of so they will help finance the millions needed to get re-elected. We need campaign/election reform now.

www.publicampaign.org/video

  • 5 votes
Reply#3 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 12:28 PM EDT
skip33666

The biggest "special interest" is now the Federal Government itself--not to mentioin the Democratic Party, which has tied itself to the idea of an ever more powerful Federal Government. I capitalize "Federal Government" for this reason.

Note that Califonia, to use one example, is supposedly the 7th largest economy in the world, and supposedly sends more money to the Federal Government than it gets back (as it should, because the Federal Government takes mmoney off the top to run its bureaucracy). WHY cannot California--a LEFTIST state--handle its own health care program. Come on. You know the answer to this one. It is because the whole idea here is that states like California have to "pay as they go" (for real, and not mere posturing). Federal money--Democrats hope and believe--is regarded as FREE MONEY for whom nobody has to pay (except, maybe, the "rich"). This whole idea that the Federal Goveernment has to take care of health care and health insurance is a SCAM designed to do nothing more than advance the disastrous idea that the Federal Government is the "solution" to ALL of our problems. If California cannot afford this health care bill, and Califnia decided it could not, than neither can the Federal Governnment. TANSTAAFL. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. The Federal Government is the LEAST inefficient, and MOST out-of-control, bureaucratic, wawsteful monster. States are closer to the people, and SHOULD be doing these things, if they should be done at all. The idea of "central planning" of an all powerful central government was discredited long ago, and it is too bad we have to keep learning the same lesson.

Yep. The Federfal Gopvernment, and the people who want to use it for their personal power, are the most dangerous "special interest" we have.

  • 1 vote
Reply#4 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 1:01 PM EDT
Borncorn

If healthcare is going to hurt these companies so bad, why are their stocks still going up rapidly? Are investors stupid? I'll stick with Warren Buffett who states that healthcare reform will help our companies compete globally. He has a pretty good track record.

  • 5 votes
Reply#5 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 1:03 PM EDT
Mark-337609

Borncorn,

Buffett is just as misleading as Obama. I go back to the point where Buffett was speaking about how little tax he pays. Well, he makes all his money via capital gains and dividends which are taxed at a lower rate and pays himself a pittance of a salary (for someone in his position) of $200K. That is misleading, he could pay more tax if he was paid a market value salary. So what else is the Oracle of Omaha misleading us about?

We'd be ableto better compete with foreign companies??? First, have you looked at the economies of the countries that have government run healthcare? They are worse off than we are. You Dems are so one dimensional. What makes you think that stocks are going up because of healthcare?? Many companies have cut costs, laid off workers, and streamlined operations; plus the economy is slowly improving. That is why stocks are going up, not because of healthcare.

I am just dumbfounded by the ease at which Dems believe everything that is spouted by their politicians and seem to question nothing. Take the recent HIRE incentives, do any of you honestly think that a company will hire a full time employee because they receive $4,000.00 from the government?? Yes, let's hire a $50K employee that we do not otherwise need so that we can save $4K, wow, that makes great economic sense. No, that Bill was politically motivated so that Obama could demonstrate to all of the Dem sheep that his administration is doing something about jobs. Recall that stimulus plan they rammed through about a year ago?? How well is that working out for you?

  • 2 votes
#5.1 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 2:07 PM EDT
Borncorn

Recall that stimulus plan they rammed through about a year ago?? How well is that working out for you?

In one word, excellent. My 401(K) is really doing well.

  • 2 votes
#5.2 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 4:35 PM EDT
Reply
Ron Christman

Their whole seed is bogus. These corporations are taking a charge against earnings based on the fact that they were getting a subsidy to cover the drug costs of their retirees and then taking a tax deduction on the subsidy. They were double dipping and now they can't. It was simply closing a tax loophole that these companies were taking advantage of. You know, takinig care of fraud and loopholes like the Republicans claim the government should.

One of the companies, AT&T, is claiming to take a one time charge of one billion dollars for 28-35% of the cost of the coverage for their retirees. That's a lot of retirees using a lot of drugs!!! I'd like to see their books.

Again, it's the big business fat cats who manipulate the Republicans to make profits off of the government and right wingers defending them when they get caught or in this case, the loophole is closed.

  • 5 votes
Reply#6 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 1:07 PM EDT
bob-1478320

they kept offering these prescription drug benefits at the urging of the government instead of the retirees using medicare prescription drug coverage which would have cost the public

  • 2 votes
#6.1 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 2:14 PM EDT
Ron Christman

You are right bob ', but that still doesn't give them the right to double dip while doing it. They were getting subsidies from the government (the public) and taking a tax break from (the public) at the same time.

  • 3 votes
#6.2 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 2:28 PM EDT
Reply
skip33666

As I said when the stock market was DOWN, and Rush Limbaugh was trying to blame it on Obama, the stock market has NO connection (weell, except when bubbles burst) to the actual economy. The modern stock market, as in 1929, is based totally on MOMENTUM and HYPE. Yes, I do consider Wall Street people the Stupidest People on Earth (along with economists and the mainstream media). I believe wwe are presently in another stock market BUBBLE. You will notice that both the stock market and oil are going up AT THE SAME TIME. That is basically an oxymoron. If the markets are saying that our currency is no good and inflation likely, as they are, then the stock market is a DANGEROUS place to be right now.

Now when I say are the Stupidest People on Earth, I obviously do not mean that they do not make money for THEMSELVES. But they leave the public holding the bag. That is what was so BAD about this recent Wall Streeet bailout. Now Wall Street is convinced it is RUNNING the country, and since 2008, or before, it has been. This is the ONE thing upon which I agree with Michael Moore: Godman Salchs has been running the economic policy of this country.

But why do so many big corporations go along with Obama? Read my article again. It is a matter of INTIMIDATION and ECONOMIC FASCISM ("socialism with a capitalist veneer"). Big Corporations think that they can "game" the Federal Government, much liike Obama and Congress "gamed" the CBO. For awhile, they will be right. Small business is being destroyed in this country. In the long run, they--like Wall Street--will be wrong.

It is a mistake, by the way, to believe that big business really likes the "free makret". Big business is a lot like Big Government, which is why the "parnership" of economic fascism can be attractive to big vusiness people. That is why it is a mistake to think that "Big Business" is out to "get" Obama. Yes, they may try to "game" the government in their own self-interst, but they are not against this ida of a central planning "partnership" with Big Government, because they are arrogant enough to think they can control it. Poor saps.

    Reply#7 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 1:22 PM EDT
    Man of Knowledge

    Odd that Skipp33666 failed to mention in this post that the these charges were a "one time charge" based on changes to tax deductions given to corporations previously.

    Even though the federal subsidies were already tax free, employers could still write them off on their income taxes, in addition to writing off their own contribution. The new law, signed by Obama on Tuesday, maintains the subsidy as a tax-free incentive to employers, but prohibits them from taking it as a deduction

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/26/news/companies/att/index.htm?postversion=2010032616

    It seems these extra costs they are writing off are a result of the health care law closing a loophole that let them write off subsidies they receive for Medicare prescription costs for retirees even though the subsidies were tax free to begin with.

    So do we applaud the health care bill for closing a loophole that is costing the US taxpayers millions of dollars of revenue and pushing up the federal spending deficits?

    • 3 votes
    Reply#8 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 1:22 PM EDT
    skip33666

    As to that last comment (and there is more involved than just that one subsidy): Does it not BOTHER you that the Federal Government is determining our economy this way? Some subidies come into existence, and others go out of existence, without anyone really knowing what the tinal effect will be--EXCEPT that the Federal Government always GROWS, and we go more and more into debt. If we are really that stupid, maybe Obama was right: people will believe the "3000 percent solution". If compaines are hurt by taking a present subsidy away, by the way, will that not HURT JOBS in this country? Of course it will. Those who live by the sword (Federal Government) will die by the sword (Federal Government, and the guaranteed ultimate failure of central planning).

      Reply#9 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 1:35 PM EDT
      skip33666

      These items are alwyas, by the way, "one time charges". We will not even get into the effective provisions of the health care bill until 2014. In the meantime, business in this country is going to be PARALYZED by the whole disaster that is the 3000 page health care bill. We could not have done this worse if we had planned it. Some conspirancy theorists--I don't think he is that smart--believe that Obama DID PALN THIS to be a disaster, to advance the earliest possilbe Federal Government takeover of everything. I would not go quite that far, but I guarntee you that Democrats view every government failure as a reason for MORE GOVERNMENT. So I would not quite agree that Obama is deliberately trying to destroy the private sector. But I agree that he ultimately views the public sector--Big Government--as the "solution" to EVERYTHING, including the failures of government.

        Reply#10 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 1:47 PM EDT
        Ron Christman

        Skipper, most seeders work hard to keep posters on subject but it seems that it is you who wishes to go off on (misinformed) right wing rants. Your initial posting is completely off base and indefensible. . . and your subsequent rantings are so convoluted that it isn't even worth trying to follow them, let alone respond to them.

        • 2 votes
        #10.1 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 2:37 PM EDT
        Reply
        Dolly-1300905

        In reference to the monstrosity Obama Health Care Plan, has any one, especially the left Media EVER stated the parts of this bill that does not directly effect your health? I understand there are many paragraphs that really just include telling the public that we will be ruled by them and it has nothing to do with our health. Why then, should it be called a Health Bill? We should all be told exactly what it is in the bill that has practically nothing to do with our HEALTH! As far as I am concerned, my doctor has all that is needed to care for me and my health. She doesn't need the government appointed panel to tell her how he/she should treat me.

        • 3 votes
        Reply#11 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 1:57 PM EDT
        Ron Christman

        Sorry Dolly; but because you choose to be clueless to the facts doesn't give you the right to spew right wing misinformation. Try finding out the facts. The info is there for you to read anytime you wish to check out credible sources.

        • 3 votes
        #11.1 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 2:33 PM EDT
        Reply
        Borncorn

        She doesn't need the government appointed panel to tell her how he/she should treat me.

        But she does need a Private insurance Company doing it instead?

        • 3 votes
        Reply#12 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 2:01 PM EDT
        Man of Knowledge

        skip33666

        So you believe a company should be able to write off an expense that was given to them by the government tax free?

        One time charges are "one time " because they do not represent a continuing cost.

        When a company is "publicly owned" it has that status as a fact of the way the government has written business and tax law. A public corporation cannot exist without government. The health care bill is simplicity itself compared, overall, to SEC and IRS regulations on businesses. These regulations are in place to protect public corporations and their owners from unscrupulous management activities that can destroy their business and misrepresent the value of the company to the shareholders.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#13 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 2:04 PM EDT
        Mark-337609

        Man of Knowledge, I would like to know more about how a company is ablt to "write off an expense that was given to them by the government tax free?" To what are you referring, the government bailout money?

        • 2 votes
        Reply#14 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 3:18 PM EDT
        Man of Knowledge

        Read comment #8 and follow the link.

        It's part of the law creating the Medicare Prescription Drug benefit passed in 2003. This is not bail out money it is a gift of taxpayer money given to corporations by Congress.

        • 3 votes
        #14.1 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 3:40 PM EDT
        Reply
        skip33666

        By the way, why are some of you so anxious to ignore (deliberately? dishonest that you are?) the main point of the article. Whatever the exact significance of these multiple corporate announcements, what about the VICOUS REACTION of Democrats to try to SUPPRESS these announcements.

        If this is all meaningless, why is Henry Waxman trying to drag the corporate executives before Congress to abuse them about the "meaningless" announcements? Whyis the Obama Administratiion in full campaign mode trying to dismiss these announcements, and prevent more?

        I stand by my article (to quote the usual mainstream media statement, although in their case they have usualy been dishonest). Democrats are clearly trying to INTIMIDATE public corporations here, and that is CORRUPT.

        • 1 vote
        Reply#15 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 3:54 PM EDT
        Man of Knowledge

        What is dishonest? The Democrats are making the write-offs more public, not suppressing them. These CEOs should be anxious to testify before Congress on the topic.

        When you have billions dollars written off a public corporation's books they have an obligation to justify it.

        • 3 votes
        #15.1 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 4:42 PM EDT
        Ron Christman

        Skipper - There is no corruption, there is no intimidation, there is truth and honesty. These corporations and your posting are trying to twist the truth. It is as simple as that.

        Face it; you were misinformed and you are trying to pass it along. . . which is the right wing way. Tell a lie enough times so people (other right wingers?) think it's the truth.

        • 2 votes
        #15.2 - Mon Apr 5, 2010 5:59 PM EDT
        Reply
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